关于1812年俄国的冬天

高守业

大多数人认为在1812年是俄国的大雪毁灭了大军,但这其实是言过其实的,因为在法军以27万主力兵团向莫斯科的途中天气都异常炎热,只有大兵团撤出莫斯科二十天后的11月6日才飘起了第一场雪,此时主力兵团有9万5千人,但伴随着之后的回暖与解动冬天并没有真正来临.只有撤退到维阿斯马严寒才真正到来,不过此时主力兵团已减少到5万5千人了,因此大军团大部分损失都发生在第一场暴风雪之前 .
一般情况下俄国的冬天会在11月到来,不过在1812年却晚来了一个月.另外冬天貌似也没那么可怕,艾利森提到说法国人比波兰人和北德意志人更为耐寒.反倒是俄军在暴风雪与法军破坏过的村庄行军时遭遇到的补给问题给他们造成了比法军更大的损失.

另补充些详细数据：
http://www.xenophon-mil.org/rushistory/borodino/claus.htm
Otto von Pivka provides some very interesting and enlightening graphs showing the declining strength of each individual corps.
From these we can read that the Imperial Guard did not fall to 50% strength until after 1 October, reflecting the fact that it even then had not been in combat. But by 3 Aug it was at 24,600, compared to an initial strength of over 35,000.
I Corps reached 50% strength on 17 Aug, during the battle of Smolensk.
II Corps hit 50% strength on 3 August during its battle at Jakubovo.
III Corps reached 50% on 19 August at the battle of Lubino (east of Smolensk).
IV Corps also declined to 50% on the 17th at Smolensk.
V Corps passed the 50% mark on August 13th.
VI Corps was already down to 50% on 7 July.
VII Corps (Reynier) which never entered very far into Russia never fell below 60%.
VIII Corps declined to 50% by 28 July, was reinforced, and then fell again below 50% at Borodino.
IX Corps (Victor) entered the theater only in September and didn't fall below 50% until November.
XI Corps did not enter Russia until 18 November and went no further than Osmiana, but nevertheless fell below 50% before the month was out.
The combined I, II, III, and IV Cavalry Corps strength, initially at 40,000, declined by 50% by 3 August

一等新兵

据说主要的非战斗减员实际上是在向莫斯科进军途中而不是撤退时发生的？
实际上是俄罗斯的夏天毁灭了大军团

高守业

据说主要的非战斗减员实际上是在向莫斯科进军途中而不是撤退时发生的？
实际上是俄罗斯的夏天毁灭了大军团
一等新兵 发表于 2011-6-10 10:57

    确实，博罗迪诺战前，除了近卫军，其它军多在8月人数打了对折，第6军更是7月7日就剩了一半，详细入下：
http://www.xenophon-mil.org/rushistory/borodino/claus.htm
Otto von Pivka provides some very interesting and enlightening graphs showing the declining strength of each individual corps.
From these we can read that the Imperial Guard did not fall to 50% strength until after 1 October, reflecting the fact that it even then had not been in combat. But by 3 Aug it was at 24,600, compared to an initial strength of over 35,000.
I Corps reached 50% strength on 17 Aug, during the battle of Smolensk. 
II Corps hit 50% strength on 3 August during its battle at Jakubovo.
III Corps reached 50% on 19 August at the battle of Lubino (east of Smolensk).
IV Corps also declined to 50% on the 17th at Smolensk.
V Corps passed the 50% mark on August 13th.
VI Corps was already down to 50% on 7 July.
VII Corps (Reynier) which never entered very far into Russia never fell below 60%.
VIII Corps declined to 50% by 28 July, was reinforced, and then fell again below 50% at Borodino.
IX Corps (Victor) entered the theater only in September and didn't fall below 50% until November.
XI Corps did not enter Russia until 18 November and went no further than Osmiana, but nevertheless fell below 50% before the month was out.
The combined I, II, III, and IV Cavalry Corps strength, initially at 40,000, declined by 50% by 3 August

装甲掷弹熊

一个参考图

tblzd

季节并非是关键   而是后勤？

高守业

感觉拿破仑最杰出的是他对全局的掌控能力(这种能力被通过营方阵的思想被体现出来).但这种能力同时也是建立在易于控制的军队和相对敝塞的地形基础上的,并在北意大利山区和南德意志被充分展现出来,在那里大军团就像一个巨型章鱼一样可以轻易捕捉任何一个角落的敌人.然而一旦到了北德意志、波兰、俄罗斯和萨克森平原地带拿破仑的掌控能力就有所下降了:虽然在1806年帝国也取得了辉煌的胜利,但这是因为普鲁士人的主动出击;如果普军没有渡过易北河而是等候他的俄国盟友到来后再采取行动话,1806的战局或许会是另一个样子.

蓝色拿破仑

其实冬天也是原因之一，而不是毫无影响。想想长津湖吧，到了那种时候军队还在受严寒的困扰。自己不信的话，冬天来东北露天一下试试。

在阐述历史原因方面，我不赞成过于抬高一个因素而贬低另外一个因素。

应该说，后勤补给和炎热的夏季在前期严重削弱了庞大的法军，而酷寒和俄军的追击又在法军撤军时造成了极大的破坏。

iron duke

好象还没有人说严寒毫无影响，只是影响没有传说那么大。
长津湖号称零下30度，而被称为大军团“天鹅绝唱”的别列津纳温度高得多，河面没有封冻，还要搭两座浮桥过。
别列津纳后，大军消耗巨大，剩下经历严寒的不太多了。后入境的奥热罗军大概在严寒中折损不少，不过那个军是拿二三线部队拼凑出来的。

iron duke

夏季的减员不止是酷热和补给，还有一个可能的重要原因是逃亡，尤其是外籍部队。
比如第6军（全部巴伐利亚军队），7月7日减员到一半。而再过1个月在波洛茨克战役，仍有12000人，第2个月减员不到10%。
什么疾病能让第一个月减少那么多，第2个月却消失了呢？很可能，第一个月开小差跑回去还来得及，第二个月深入敌境已远，想跑也没得跑了。当然，这点还需要资料验证。

高守业

确实,同样是南德意志的弗腾堡人也很能跑,进入俄境时弗腾堡师有1万6六人,但到了九月初只剩下1千4百人...百分之九十还要多...不知那掷弹兵国王平时是怎么约束自己的士兵的...
另外科兰古在他的那本回忆录中表示:如果1812年的大雪早来一段时间,大兵团很可能闭免最终覆灭的命运.1812年战役的200周年纪念日快到了(滑铁卢的也不远了...)希望能抽时间写篇考据文.